Stay High
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I originally set out to meet STAY HIGH at 149th and Grand Concourse. In prior discussions we'd agreed the best bet was to walk through The Bronx and eventually take a subway ride downtown towards Canal St.

He never showed, least not far as my eyes could tell. I waited for an hour then descended back downtown. If only Stay High had a telephone, I could reach him and it would be on. I returned back to the intermediary who'd set up the interview, talked about the no-show and went about my day. A week later I received a phone call around 7:45 a.m., "Stay High's gonna be around the office at nine." I scooped up my camera and recording device, and was on my way.

If only you readers could have been there for the first ten minutes before we sat down for a chat. STAY HIGH managed to eat three donuts, pound a coffee like a Dixie cup full of water after a marathon, drink a coca-cola, and then a red bull.

Real concrete success, the kind that sticks around by word of mouth for generations to come, is achieved by few. If success was the attainment of money then all one has to do is find a niche, and copy what's working sans the mistakes. STAY HIGH 149 is undeniably a success, not because of what he has achieved thus far and the amount of talk circulating about him, he's purely a success because he talks as if he hasn't even begun.

A majority of questions were offered to me by the ultimate wanderer; Mr. Sane Smith.

Jimmy Naughton: Where were you last week? You never showed, I stood by the conductors booth for nearly an hour!
149: I was there, I left my mark all over the stairwell on the way up to the street, you never showed!
(after some laughter the interview begins.)
JN: What year were you born?
149: I came into the earth in 1950; Emporia, Virginia. A small town outside of Richmond, Virginia. My mother relocated to Harlem and then later on we moved to the Bronx.
JN: You were into graffiti when you lived in Harlem?
149: Very little, once I crossed the bridge into the Bronx and I ran into some friends of mine, that's when I really got into it. That's when I really started.
JN: Who were some of the first tags that really caught your eye and got you into it?
149: Well back then, living in Harlem at the time before we moved to the Bronx there were guys like Joey 139; he used to be on a lot of busses up and down Harlem. Clyde and Top Cat 126, there was another guy Snake 131 his name was Reggie, he got up a lot in Harlem.
JN: When you developed your tag you started out as Stay High? Or, did you have a name before that?
149: Uh, no. My friends basically gave me that name when I moved to the Bronx. You know, I started smokin' a lot of pot. And hangin' out, y'know, we sat in hallways playing our little music and dancin' and carrying on drinking. I used to smoke marijuana everyday, and the guys started calling me stay high. I liked it, it stuck, and after that I just started writing it you know.
JN: You were in high school at the time?
149: Yeah, I went to Dewitt Clinton high school in the Bronx.
JN: You got the stick figure with the halo from the television show the saint?
149: That's right, Roger Moore, that's a show from the sixties, and they had this stick figure guy, and I just thought it was a great idea.  I changed him up a little bit so I wouldn't have any problems with the people who produced the show.
JN: I read that your first partner was Dead Leg 167.
149: That's right!
JN: How did you guys schedule times to go out? Was it just hanging out being kids or…..
149: Well, we were hanging out and we'd get weeded up, boozed up, we started acting silly. And we just decided, you know, me and Bruce, that's Dead Leg 167, that's my partner. We just decided to go the yards, we grabbed some paint and then we'd go bombin' man
JN: Back then they didn't have much fencing around the perimeter of the train yard, you just walked right in?
149: Just go right in. Not like later on when they had the dogs, the barbed wire fence, security guards, they did everything to keep us out of the yards, but back then it was basically wide open.
JN: People wondered and wished that they could do something like that. What was the feeling you had when you saw a car go by and you knew that, especially in the early nineteen seventies, there weren't that many people doing it. Did it seem like it was just you and your friends or were there a lot of writers around at that time?
149: We had a place set up where we would meet and exchange black books. I'd sign his book and he'd sign my book, stuff like that. 149th street and Grand Concourse, which we called the "Writers Bench." Also, near Dewitt Clinton we'd congregate at this coffee shop. Basically we'd just decide to go painting and any time we wanted to go we'd just go.
JN: Do you have any idols or heroes that you looked up to, anybody that really motivated or taught you? Did you come up with your tag on your own?
149: Basically on my own. I came up with my character, I came up with the way I designed my name and put it together. I just drew it up, its amazing now when I look back at it, the way I hooked it up where the h has a cross bar with a smoking joint.
JN: Did you meet TOPCAT 126 and what did you think of his Philly style influence?
149: I only met him a couple times and I met him through a good friend of mine Stan 153. He knew him very well, he had the tall letters from Philly schools and they bought that style from Philly to New York. Top Cat when he got here he started doing that style. The real thin, tall style.
JN: Did the Top Cat style make NYC writers aware of Philly style?
149: Well, the Philly style was nice, there was also another guy you didn't mention Cornbread from Philadelphia.
JN: It seems like the Cornbread style is more readable than the tall-exaggerated Philly style.
149: Cornbread, he made his tag legible. That's the thing; I never did like guy's tags where you can't even read it. You gotta stand there for ten minutes trying to make out what the hell the tag says. What good is that if you cant make it out? You have to make it legible!
YP: Right! You should be able to go by it fast whether on foot or on the train and be able to read it as it goes by.
149: Just think, if you had it where it's not legible, and how would somebody make it out if it just zips by. No matter how technical it is people still have to be able to make it out and read it.
JN: Did you ever have a chance to meet Barbara 62 and Eva 62?
149: You know, it's amazing; I never had a chance to meet them. I always admired them, because as far as girl artists, there weren't too many back then. There was also another young lady, Charmin 65, I don't know if you ever heard of her, but she was from the Bronx, and she got up a lot too. She now works for the New York City Transit, would you believe that? She's in the token booth!
JN: You still bump into her?
149: Every now and then I see her, she doesn't do much graff now but she's still in touch with it. It stays with you forever man; you never lose it, not me.
JN: You still do a tag everyday, or a couple times a week?
149: I guarantee I get at least, one in a day. I guarantee! So that's three hundred sixty five tags a year. Sometimes I do more than one. But I have to get in at least one a day, its mandatory. (Laughs)
JN: What's your favorite borough to hit?
149: Umm, as you know I was all-city, I really like the Bronx. I really like to bomb the Bronx! Anywhere I went, I would catch a tag, my little saying back then was, "Have marker, will travel." If I have markers, I'm traveling. But, the Bronx was my favorite hangout out as far as hitting it.
JN: Nobody ever messed with you when you were walking around? Do you have any good stories?
149: Well, I didn't have any bad stories, you know, most of my stories are good. I got along with everybody; I didn't have any beef back then, like some of my friends. I'm not gonna call out any names. A few guys I knew had beef over tagging, somebody going over one another whether accidental or on purpose. It didn't make sense to me. Me, getting up, if you have an enemy, then there's the chance somebody's gonna take your shit out. No beef.
JN: Barbara and Eva 62, were they Spanish?
149: From what I hear, I believe they were Hispanic. I have a friend and he was supposed to set up a date for us to go out to lunch but it never occurred. This guy was gonna hook me up with them so I could meet them. I just recently met Miss 17, I admire her man, she really gets up, I think she gets up more than any other female. Little small quick tags and a lot of times she doesn't put the whole Miss 17, she'll put MS 17, or if you see just the 17 you knows its hers, the same way if you see only the little smoking guy, you know its me. That 17 is distinguishable. I don't always have the time to do a whole Stay High tag every time, but if I do the character smoking a joint, you know that's me.
JN: What influence do you think woman have had on graffiti?
149: Well, there's also another young lady we didn't mention, Lady Pink. Lady Pink is a great artist too; she contributed a lot to graffiti as far as females go. I like to see the female artists, they like to write too, they put a lot into the game. There's not as many woman as guys that are writing. So the amount of woman that write, they stand out because there's not that many of em'.
JN: Who do you think the first writer was? Tracy 168? Taki 183? Tree 127? Joe 136?
149: Wow! You mentioned all those guys. You know, all those guys were coming up around the same time, the same era. As far as exactly who was first I really can't say. My time coming up I did see all those tags. Tracy from the Bronx, Joe 136 was from Manhattan,  Taki, from 183rd street. I would say Taki, I saw Taki's name before I did the other ones. I can't believe you even know who Tree is, he used to get up on a lot of busses with thin markers.
JN: He was a messenger right?
149: I was also a messenger myself, that's how I got up a lot. Messengers go all over and every time I make a run, bam, I bombed every time I made a run. The job took me to places I would have never gone.
JN: What did you think when you first started realizing that people were noticing your name a lot, did you think it was inevitable?
149: It was amazing, the way people admired my name, it makes you feel good. Every time somebody stops you and says you know, "You're a legend man. I see your tag everywhere." That was my job. My job was to make sure that I got my name on every subway car. That was my job, basically try to smack every car, which was probably almost impossible, but I tried. Back then there was one guy that really inspired me to go all out, and that was Super Kool 223. This guy bombed a lot back then. He was from the Bronx as well at 223rd street. The first time I ever saw a tag with a uni-wide it was a Super Kool 223. I first saw it, it was amazing, I said, this cant be a brush, it's too even! I was like, what the hell is this? The first time you see it and it has this calligraphic angle, I saw it man and it was red and I never forgot it was red and it was so bold! I was like, what the hell is this? Finally I found out it was a uni-wide. I got my hands on one of them and the rest was history. Super Kool was the first guy that I saw that was bombing a lot and I just wanted to out-do him.
JN: Did you ever have a chance to hang out with him?
149: Yeah, we hung out a couple of times. Today; now he works for the fire department. From a graffiti artists to a meter maid, to a fireman. That's his livelihood. Would you believe that? Super Kool 223 Fireman, oh man isn't that wild!
JN: Are you working anywhere?
149: Right now at the time I'm not, I basically survive on my graphic arts.
JN: I think that's one of the most amazing things in the world because I don't think there are many people in New York City that could do that and it's the center of the world. I don't think people realize how insane it is to be able to walk around and sell art. I can't think of one other person that could do that, and on such a daily basis.
149: Yeah, its amazing man, and I thank god that he blessed me to be able to do this. So many people tell me that I'm very fortunate. To be able to sell a canvas, just walking down the street and sell a canvas, or even on the subway sometimes I may be doing a canvas and the people may not have any connection with graffiti, but they like the color coordination and the way the piece looks. I've actually sold stuff to strangers on the train. They admire it and that's what gets me over.
 JN: I think people know the smoking saint, even if they don't know graffiti, they know that design.
149: Yeah, they know that represents something right. A lot of people smoke marijuana, not saying it's the right thing to do. Well, hopefully they legalize the weed. It's not getting high, it's staying high, ha ha, 149 baby. The legend continues, whew whew.
JN: UGA and Hugo stated that graffiti is a Spanish thing.
149: Ahh, not really man, I don't know how anybody could really say that. Every culture, so many different ethnicities are doing graffiti so that's not a true statement. Black guys, white guys, it doesn't matter what color as long as your into the arts and you keep it going. We run it man; you know, the ghetto, the ghetto.
JN: Do you meet many black writers today?
149: Umm, yeah, a lot of my friends that tag are black. I got white guys that bomb, I bomb with anybody. You write? We hang out! That's all. We don't care about color; we care about the color of the spray paint and the markers. You know what I mean? That's right baby!
JN: Did you ever create your own crew?
149: I have a friend, his name is Wicked Gary, and he created the Ex-Vandals. That's the crew that I tag with a lot. When I first started, I was introduced to the Ex-Vandals by Wicked Gary, he's the president and he put me in as a member, I put people in that I thought were qualified to be an Ex-Vandal. Ex-Vandal is a vandal with experience. Not a person that used to write. Because people say, "How could you be an Ex-Vandal if you're still writing?" So Ex, means experience. Vandals with experience, isn't that great.  
JN: What ever happened to Ex-Vandals?
149: We still exist. There are a few of us still around. That's a long time. It started in the sixties, were still going. You still see Ex-Vandals tags around.
JN: Who do you think had a bigger influence Phase 2 or Kase 2?
149: I would have to say Lonnie, Phase 2. He's a great artist; he's amazing with his style. To watch this guy when he draws man, he sqwinches his eyes, like he can barely see. But the guy is a great artist. Not knockin' or taking anything away from Kase 2, Kase 2 is a great artist too.
JN: You ever bump into Kase 2?
149: The last time I met up with Kase 2 was at the Hall of Fame. 106th and Park, we hung out and we had a little rap session. Basically, the Hall of Fame is where we all get together once a year, everybody shows up.
JN: Did you ever hang out at any other benches and was there any interactions between other benches?
149: Guys from all the benches, we all met, sometimes the guys from the Bronx went to Queens or Brooklyn or they would come up to the Bronx. That's how we got together. Everybody knew the spots where we'd meet; make sure you bring your paint and we'd go out.
JN: In the earliest days was there much beef between writers or was it all just for fun?
149: Well, with me it has always been a fun thing; I enjoy getting up you know. So I stay away from beef. If I see that somebody has beef, I go the other way, it's not worth it. It's a hard enough time to get your name up. Other guys did though, one guy goes over someone else and the next thing you know they want to fight each other. Its not worth it, its not what graffiti is about, Graffiti is about getting up, if you go over someone else and then they go over you, how are you going to get up? You're only knocking yourself down when you do that, its dumb, it's a dumb thing to do.
JN: Just off the top of your head can you remember any early kings of the 6 line?
149: I used to see Richie a lot on the 6, Seen, you know, he was up on the 6. PJ had a lot running on the 6. I didn't hit the 6 too much, but as you know the trains switched up, the 4 became the 6, the 6 became the 5. The United Artists; Duster.
JN: You were unheard of for a little while; people were wondering where you were….
149: Mystified, ha ha, where's Wayne?
JN: What year was it that you began slowing it up a little bit?
149: It was in the earlier part of the eighties, I had some personal things going on in my life. I had to chill for a minute. Not that I quit totally, But I slowed down considerably for the earlier part of the eighties. Later on I came back. My friend Freedom wrote an article in While You Were Sleeping. It said, "New York City Graffiti King," and "Stay High 149 returns after twenty years," on the cover of the magazine. Basically it was that amount of time that I was silent. Once I saw that article, I thought to myself, damn man, this guys writing an article about me, I had to make a comeback. Freedom wrote it, it was great. Once I saw the story and read it, that inspired me to comeback. Full strength again and here I am.
JN: Where were you living during that period of seclusion?
149: I was still living in the Bronx. But, I had some problems so I was going from place to place. I wasn't that much into graffiti at that time. I still got up with a couple tags.
JN: You still thought about it?
149: I still thought about it and threw a few in there in between. But I had a lot more going on in my mind, until I saw the story that he wrote, then I came back full strength. I was layin' low.
JN: Do you have any stories about the tunnels?
149: I have a few stories about being chased, these tunnel workers come after you with these big tools and we'd run. But, I'd always say, you know, you guys are working on the tracks, why do you wanna bother us?
JN: You used to talk to track workers down there?
149: Yeah, we'd talk to em' you know. There were homeless people, we spoke with them too. It's amazing the people that you meet in the tunnels; there are a lot of people down there. I had a lot of people down there that wanted to meet me, conductors, motor men, you know, they saw my name and these guys wanted to meet me.
JN: You were always pretty kind to anyone you met?
149: Yeah, like I said, I didn't want to have any kind of beef. I went out of my way to be nice. I'm very humble man; it gets you further than being a ball breaker.